If you represent the 'premier' institutions in the country offering top quality management education, what is the minimum acceptable standard in the CAT to offer admission? 45 percentile? 60 Percentile? 80 Percentile?
Have a look at the various cutoffs for giving out interview calls for the new IIMs for the Class of 2012-14
source: New IIM websites
The numbers for the Class of 2013-15 will be similar
The case of the older IIMs is not very different. IIM Kozhikode does not have a sectional cutoff at all. General category candidates require an overall CAT score of 85 percentile. Cutoffs for various category candidates are 75,65,55 and 55 with no sectional cutoffs. Read here.
IIM Lucknow and IIM Indore have identical cutoffs for General and NC-OBC categories with a 90 percentile overall score and a 85 percentile sectional score. Around 50 percentile is the sectional cutoff for other categories at both these schools. IIM Bangalore has very similar cutoffs to IIM L and IIM I.
Generally, in the case of the older IIMs, the actual cutoffs are a touch higher than those declared earlier as more than enough candidates meet them. However, with the thrust on diversity and the increasing batch sizes, the gap between actual cutoffs and those announced is reducing or has vanished.
In order to probe this deeper, we had written to the admission committees of all the older IIMs to get similar figures as released by the new IIMs for 2012-14. We got a response only from IIM Indore. You can read it here
Questions we want to raise
1) Do minimum percentile cutoffs have any impact on brand IIM?
2) If yes, why can't the minimum percentile cutoffs be higher? Why is it so important to fill up seats such that criteria for selection is relaxed to such lows?
3) Does this mean that the CAT percentile score is irrelevant ?
Our View
There is no definition of a 'Low Cutoff'. However, we believe that some of the cutoffs are so low that it is affecting brand IIM. We believe that those seats should go unfilled instead of being occupied by relaxing minimum standards in such a manner.This is a career focused website and we speak to a lot of recruiters. Although, most IIMs prevent their students from revealing their CAT percentiles in their resume, it would be foolish for the IIMs to believe that recruiters are not aware of the state of affairs. Although the efforts towards promoting diversity are appreciated, the relaxation of cat percentile standards has also been noticed by them. There will be consequences that schools will face in the long term.
(People commenting on this topic are advised to exercise caution. This is not a debate on reservations but on minimum acceptable cutoffs)
You may also like to read :
All you wanted to know about shortlisting criteria of Top Business Schools (2013-15)
Prediction - 100 Women each in 4 IIMs for Class of 2015
IIM Grad? Have an IIM call? Show some humility.
Fair warning to IIM aspirants from an IIM student
Comments
unknown
I am an NC-OBC guy.. I got 95%ile in CAT with 90 and 96 sectional... this is still 9500 rank among the 2 lac test takers.. but still I didnt get any old IIM calls.. where as people in my category have converted IIMK at as low as 83%ile.. hence CAT doesnt play a single role... u just hae to meet there min. criteria thats it!
13 May 2013, 03.03 PM
+Read Replies (4)
BDC
I wish it were that simple...So, in my time, which is like cat 2007-first & only attempt, I scored a 98.1 overall, with breakups of 96.5, 94.2 & 92.8...I met the friggin minimum cut-offs for atleast IIM I,K but didn't qualify because there were other more special folks who had to be accommodated.....So, all this minimum criteria is bull....
13 May 2013, 05.31 PM |
Piyush
Dude, get your fact straight, they are just talking about one of their criteria, which is CAT. Others being academic performance. So it is a timeline argument on the way CAT score is used as a selection/rejection tool.
14 May 2013, 07.35 AM |
SKA
Let me tell you my frnd's tale. He got a 99.35,no top IIM Calls, A friend got 99.08, no top IIM calls, I got 96%tile, no IIM calls altogether. Now seeing that the standard falls down that drastically makes you question the whole system of their "filling seats with students" who may not be entirely worthy of that seat but that's thenature of things and it'll keep going that way!
17 May 2013, 12.16 PM |
NIT
Call from the top IIMs are not based on sectional or overall cutoffs. your 10th and 12th and graduation marks are too taken into consideration. Plus your CV too plays a role. Yes OBC/SC/ST students do get admitted for lower cut-offs so work should be done to teach these students so that they prepare well rather than putting a 80 percentile cutoff and devoiding them of quality education completely.
17 May 2013, 12.28 PM |
xbl
Brand IIM is seriously diluting..in terms of cut off percentile, quality of faculties and last but not the least in terms of placements. This is a new era of MBA-tamasha, where IIMs continue to brag about their diversity and 100% placements. In long term, we will see a huge impact on the quality of grads coming out of IIMs and in the value of IIM Tag as well.
13 May 2013, 03.18 PM
Insideiim Admin
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@Sourik Syed and @Unknown - Your comments against each other were deleted because they were pointless and had no connection to the post
13 May 2013, 03.30 PM
sajal
poor article to say the least
13 May 2013, 03.33 PM
+Read Replies (21)
Insideiim Admin
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Thanks for your feedback! Elaborate a little please so that we can improve. We take all feedback very seriously.
13 May 2013, 03.46 PM |
AgainstRant
What's there to provide feedback about! It's a disguised rant against "Reservation" with a line at the end saying it isn't. You guys seriously need to read up on Indian history and caste system.
13 May 2013, 03.54 PM |
@InsideIIM
It is unfortunate you look at it this way. We had no intention of raking up the reservation issue. It is there to stay. Our view was on the minimum acceptable percentile to make it an IIM. And there is a minimum acceptable percentile published by all IIMs before the CAT takes place. Our view is just that the standards could be higher.
13 May 2013, 05.22 PM |
ProudOBC
Dude, I believe in 3 box strategy published by Prof Govind of HBR Selectively forget the past, Manage the present & Develop the Future. While I belong to NC-OBC category, I scored 99.53 percentile & got my dream college. Though comments made by people belonging to General category disturb me, they are not entirely wrong. People like me have to face such comments despite scoring really high & I daresay, many people from the reserved category don't really have the material to be a pert of IIM I am also of the opinion that there should be a minimum cut-off & if not satisfied, those seats should be either left vacant or filled with more deserving students!
13 May 2013, 05.31 PM |
BDC
The rant is justified...since when did freely expressing the damn truth become a rant..... its ok if i get ahead of the GC by 10-20 percentile and snathc his damn seat. But if he expresses his/her view then it becomes a problem.....
13 May 2013, 07.02 PM |
AgainstRant
It's the centuries of oppression that has led to this situation that minimum acceptable percentile needs to be relaxed enough to let a few people of that community in. Please go and read some class 8th history. You guys claim to be "learned men/women" from IIMs and have no idea how this came about to be. I am quoting from class 8th CBSE book, the link follows the quote ( it's 8th para from top)- A third feature of the Constitution was that it offered special privileges for the poorest and most disadvantaged Indians. The practice of untouchability, described as a “slur and a blot” on the “fair name of India”, was abolished. Hindu temples, previously open to only the higher castes, were thrown open to all, including the former untouchables. After a long debate, the Constituent Assembly also recommended that a certain percentage of seats in legislatures as well as jobs in government be reserved for members of the lowest castes. It had been argued by some that Untouchable or as they were now known, Harijan, candidates did not have good enough grades to get into the prestigious Indian Administrative Service. But, as one member of the Constituent Assembly, H.J. Khandekar, argued, it was the upper castes who were responsible for the Harijans “being unfit today”. Addressing his more privileged colleagues, Khandekar said: We were suppressed for thousands of years. You engaged us in your service to serve your own ends and suppressed us to such an extent that neither our minds nor our bodies and nor even our hearts work, nor are we able to march forward. Along with the former Untouchables, the adivasis or Scheduled Tribes were also granted reservation in seats and jobs. Like the Scheduled Castes, these Indians too had been deprived and discriminated against. The tribals had been deprived of modern healthcare and education, while their lands and forests had been taken away by more powerful outsiders. The new privileges granted them by the Constitution were meant to make amends for this. <a href="http://www.cbseacademics.in/download-book/ncert-class-8-history-india-after-independence-175691.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.cbseacademics.in/download-book/ncert-c...</a> By saying that acceptable standards needs to be raised you are behaving just like 'English" when selections for Indian Civil Services were going on. Raising minimum acceptable standard when people of those communities are not capable of achieving those standard is equivalent to saying 'deny them reservation' but in disguise which is even more shameful.
14 May 2013, 03.51 PM |
MVB
Said exploitation of the poor and oppressed is really sad. Let me also point out that so many of the oppressed community members after benefiting from the system with Jobs, Degrees etc then oppress and suppress members of their own community by using that wealth generated from the degrees and jobs to go to such institutes of higher learning like IIM and thus augmenting their already high incomes to ultra high levels. Rather giving a chance to someone who did not have those benefits, these privelaged and previously oppressed turn into oppressors. I really feel sad for a community who is basically employing flaws in the system to make a select few oppressors again.
14 May 2013, 04.24 PM |
AgainstRant
Oh yeah!! Turn the table towards a minority within minority instead of looking at the rotten within majority. *claps*
14 May 2013, 05.07 PM |
MVB
This is not a question of minority vs majority my friend. This is a fundamental question on the need for reservation in post graduate courses. It is but natural that a minority within a minority will exploit and I want to be on your side and prevent this from happening. Thus I want to prevent such people who are in PSU's and earn a lot of money to then go to IIM ABC by getting an 70-80% in CAT. And if you do research this out you will find that so many such incidents happen it is shameful and sad that this flaw in this system is being exploited by a set who are used to getting things easily.
14 May 2013, 11.37 PM |
AgainstRant
Everyday some people travel ticketless in trains ie exploit the system hence we should close down our railway network. A few soldiers misuse their position of power in AFSPA enforced regions and hence we should disband our whole army. Few people are misusing our banking system to keep black money, we should shut down our banking system. The list is endless. Dude! A few people exploiting the system is always going to happen in any system whatsoever. The day we realize that affirmative action is required in India after 65 years is because of our core mentality of not letting go of our caste system will be the day we will stop looking at this minority within minority and instead look within ourselves.
15 May 2013, 03.20 AM |
BDC
@ AgainstRant - Looks like u have some agenda up ur sleeve. When it being explained to you of the potential cause for misuse, you are throwing the blame back on the majority.....are your brains on a vacation?
15 May 2013, 12.11 PM |
AgainstRant
Your's is the first uncivilised reply in the chain so everybody can guess whose "brains are on a vacation"!!
15 May 2013, 04.22 PM |
MVB
If it was a few people misusing it I would have followed your super articulate and completely calm comment on the banks, soldiers, railways and would never have questioned the giant absurdity of the analogy between Business School education in the most demanding institutes. But my friend my point to you is that it is not a few, it is the most and arguably complete set of people who use the category status and the guise of affirmative action to further their own monetary needs without deserving it first. If I am not understood or anyone here has questioned your intent to change the status of minorities by providing proven and useful means of uplifting them and tapping their talent, We are sorry about that. We would also request you to open your mind to our arguments and also look at things from other perspectives.
15 May 2013, 04.55 PM |
AgainstRant
Who decides about the suitability of need for reservation among the minorities. It's the government. By questioning the system you are questioning our constitution. You have two options, either respect the system or get inside the system to change it. But what you should not do is question every individual using reservation about his/her suitability because you are not authorised to do so and also because it is the manifestation of social stigmatisation in 21st century.
15 May 2013, 05.06 PM |
BDC
@ AgainstRant - If my brains were on a vacation, I wouldn't have scored a 98+ in CAT.....While your types who whose brains were not on a vacation, score a 50+ and enter IIMs.....
15 May 2013, 05.17 PM |
MVB
No one here questioned the need of reservation or affirmative action. We are all the more happy in having an egalitarian society where one progresses based on their passions and skills and not their identity. Reservations as a tool to provide education to the underprivelaged has not been debated but using that tool to provide education in a postgraduate course ( not undergraduate) for a minority aspirant who has already undergone a 3-4 year college education and hence has taken advantage of reservation there and can thus afford to struggle and get a job which atleast gives him a normal standard of living is questionable and ethically wrong. I would propose that such reservation can only result in overkill and once a person has enjoyed the reservation status for getting one privelage should not be allowed to use it again for another degree/job etc. Simply because they have already been provided the opportunity to correct the difference in standard of living.
15 May 2013, 05.32 PM |
AgainstRant
Dr. Ambedkar had multiple doctorates and even then he was thrown out of a carriage and did not have the social standing that he should have had. Still Dr. Ambedkar is being sidelined in comparison to Nehru and Gandhi in our governmental policies. It isn't about jobs aur monetary compensations my friend. How do I get it through to you that a job after an undergraduate degree does not amend this social corruption. Add to this the fact that our undergraduate institutions are in very bad shame except a few and do not impart the right job skills leave apart the right social standing that I'm talking about. I am reiterating, it is about social equality. The day we start treating every individual with same amount of respect will be the day politician won't be able to polarize us in the name of caste. But sadly India's reality is not so!
15 May 2013, 07.26 PM |
MVB
So what you are saying is that jobs, education, reservation is not enough and what you want is social standing - if so then How do we provide that? Important question is can we provide that. Social standing is always a subjective proposition - for some it is education, some it is money and some it is power. But then it still does not affect our current dilemma and moreover this kind difference in judging merit only decreases your social standing by preventing you to compete with everyone fair and square. You cannot hope to get equal social standing in the current standing and by having so many people abuse the intentions and thus framed policies.
15 May 2013, 07.54 PM |
AgainstRant
Please go on provide an alternative to this system where I can try my best and reach an institution of repute and again try my best in the job market to find something that will provide money,power and respect. Go ahead I'm listening. At the time of independence, upper castes constituted 2% of the population but commanded more than 90% of the positions of power in society. Don't you think if we remove this system( howsoever low the cut off might go) this situation will return!! At some point of time people have to realize that this system prevented and still prevents civil war in our country. Our IIMs and IITs will not exist if our country is torn by civil war. Oppression of tribals has led to 'naxalism' and a similar scenario will arise wherever we let our "old parochial systems" run rampant leading to gross inequities in the system.
15 May 2013, 10.36 PM |
MVB
I think I already provided an alternative solution. Each underprivelaged candidate can use the caste quota once in his life and has to choose when to use it between a reservation in Job, Undergraduate or postgraduate or anything else. So you have a shot to an attempt to get a decent standard of living and thus uplift them.
15 May 2013, 11.47 PM |
AgainstRant
Haha!! Your comment makes me laugh so hard! He won't be able to get to undergraduate study forget using quota for job. You are naive my friend, naive beyond words!! It is best if you acknowledge the fact the multiple times more learned men have pondered and brainstormed this problem and it is still being discussed by the most capable men. Trust their judgement and have faith, things will work out for our nation. every individual should do his bit at his level and that is respect your fellow being without regard to his caste and I assure you the people brainstorming the solution to this problem will find it much easier!! This is my final post to this chain. I hope I was able to put forth a civilized and sensible reasoning as to why we require these reservations and instead of despising the system we should help it achieve its objective. Vande Mataram.
16 May 2013, 12.32 AM |
Shashi
BRAND IIM is enough that you are hoping to make a living by this Brand by running this website. Your heading is wrong Have you seen anyone getting IIM tag at 45 percentile ? I expect facts from inside iim not the sensational news like TOI. Your argument is wrong that IIM's should not lower the cutoff's in my point of view . What you are saying is if you have extra food you will not give it to a starving person because he finished 5th in a race for food of 10 ,only 1st 2nd 3rd healthy individuals deserve the food . I think CAT is famous because of IIM's , IIM's are not famous because of CAT if you score 100 percentile no body will offer you a job except coachings and insideiim .It's what you learn in those 2 years in IIM's matters and to show how much a person learnt in those 2 years there is something called CGPA/CPI which you may be aware of and recruiters are happy to hire on the basis of that . Do you hire people on the basis of how he performed in a 3 hour test taken 2 years back . Common insideIIM do not let people from non IIM's play with the reputation and excellency for which you stand . We have higher expectations and I hope you will take notice of that.
13 May 2013, 04.11 PM
+Read Replies (2)
BDC
Since when did serving extra food to the hungry qualify as a comparison. are you friggin crazy!!!!! CAT is a friggin competition where every extra edge gets you that much closer to that prized seat. You want mercy and pity go elsewhere!!!! Bakwaas....
13 May 2013, 05.27 PM |
Piyush
Who said that if someone has extra bucks, those should be distributed to poor. Is it about deserving a seat or begging for one? Had the quality been not there, IIMs would not have been known for what they are today. I agree that everyone must be given a fair chance. But, higher education is not the stand to do that. And of course there is no age bar, or restriction on number of attempts. A student should be able to prove his worth, and government is already helping financially. So my dear friend - ek sabji wale se koi kharab sabzi nahi leta, so 1 day IIMs se bhi koi less talented candidates nahi lega. It is also about quality. Quantity(population) is already present. CAT is a chosen standardized exam over decades to justify the performance quality of candidates. Normalization can affect people by around +(-) 5/7%ile but not much.
14 May 2013, 07.45 AM |
Critic
Poor one!
13 May 2013, 04.30 PM
Somil
If a quota candidate is at par with the average general candidate, he shall get a place with the extra-ordinary general candidates because historically the system is justified and your surname and place of birth will be treated equivalent to merit.......brand IIM is sure to be diluted!
13 May 2013, 04.46 PM
Jigarkumar Dave
Kindly, post the replies form other institutes as well...It give a better scenario understanding to the aspirants...
13 May 2013, 05.06 PM
+Read Replies (2)
@InsideIIM
We have not received replies from any other schools (Assuming you are referring to the data we have posted about IIM Indore)
13 May 2013, 05.19 PM |
Jigarkumar Dave
You are already doing a great service to the students...Kindly, find it somehow or at-least give tentative possibilities...
15 May 2013, 05.54 PM |
Ace
Time for the non-IIM B-schools to rise!! XLRI, MDI, SPJ !!
13 May 2013, 05.16 PM
Abhay
Good article. Big fan of InsideIIM for its great stories and cover pieces. As far as this article is concerned, I agree to the point being made that a certain "IIM" brand name does get affected in the long run due to dilution of entry criteria. However, it is my belief(backed by the words of the recruiters themselves) that recruiters, across all domains, always pay attention to the individual institute from which they recruit more than simply tag along with a brand name such as "IIM". They would be doing their organisations as well as the institute injustice if they didn't. There is a reason why, for instance, why BCG doesn't recruit from all IIM's, or Blackstone or any top company in any domain. The oldest of IIM's i.e. A,B and C still call the shots when it comes to getting the best companies on campus due to their history,alumni and a lot of other factors. K,L and I though getting bloated by batch size do not command the same stature as ABC even for recruiters despite having the IIM tag. So even if some person does claim the IIM tag, anyone with a shred of sense will always find it prudent to verify the suffix before jumping to conclusion. The same phenomenon can be seen even in the IIT's, what with dozens getting added to the original tally. I would not be surprised if this scenario worsens as time passes. But as with everything, we need more quality institutions to support our burgeoning needs. We can't ignore that. Policy decision like those to allow foreign universities to set shop here still are in progress. To build an environment that supports masses for higher management education needs while still maintaining the standards as desired by recruiters will take time. In the meanwhile, we can only hope that those who have the power to keep these great institutions' brand from imploding due to long term "questionable" policy decisions, as the one mentioned above regarding low percentiles, use it for the benefit of the public and these behemoths as well. P.s. I do not intend any insult on any institution be it, IIM or other. These comments are my opinion and should be taken on face value.
13 May 2013, 05.23 PM
BDC
A nice article.....To all those who feel that their feathers have been ruffled, well its a small price to pay for snatching away seats from candidates who genuinely deserved it and had gotten a 98+ percentile but had to make do with a non IIM brand and maybe perhaps a lesser paying job!!! You like to have your cake and eat it too, but, when someone stands up and expresses his/her views feathers get ruffled!!!! I have first hand seen the quality of 'some' of those with lesser percentiles passing out of IIMs and I only feel sad that more deserving candidates had to lose out to this due to such a system!!!!
13 May 2013, 05.25 PM
iimer
I applaud Inside IIM for coming up with this article. It aptly describes the depleting brand name of IIMs, thanks to the new IIMs and the overall seat increases in the name of development. The idea of new IIMs is good, but 6 new IIMs in 2 years?? Have they even thought about the economic situation when coming up with these new IIMs?? Any seat increase should be done only if there is real supply of good jobs. Recently one of the directors of a new IIM was talking about increasing its intake to 1000 in the next 3 years or so if possible. It is sad that a director (of an esteemed institute) is trying to make education a business! IIMs are for the people who really work hard. There's a "Hard working, smart and intelligent" tag that a recruiter associates with people passing out of IIMs. They will stop hiring from IIMs if there is a dilution of the CAT percentiles. MBA from an IIM is certainly not for imparting MBA to each and every person in India. This is certainly not a "Sarva Siksha Abhyaan" program! It is only for the hard workers, the people who are cut above the rest, the people who make a difference. The course at IIMs is rigorous and it requires people to be hard working to live through the course. People with 45% will hardly pass out of an IIM because they might not be able to withstand the rigor.
13 May 2013, 05.47 PM
RANDOMISATION
coming to c@t as such, c@t itself is a farce... i have seen complete idiots get into ABC, this from gen category... some of the best brains in the country get RANDOMISED, some of the most undeserving people get 99+... and the same people who do c@t well screw up xat, iift, nmat, snap, etc... all in all, the entire selection process is screwd... dunno how IIMs are blind to all this...
13 May 2013, 06.33 PM
Enlightenment..
Kindly read the comments & enlighten urself. It seems even IIT, IIM's will be taken from us now. It's a 1000 yr vs 60 yr story. It'll take time for ppl to develop themselves. Pls understand. I've seen how a section of the general guys study so less, but secure such gud marks. Why is it so? In america, ppl are encouraging blacks. Why not in India? Why are we like this? I think its time to change ourselves. Is racism not similar to casteism? Oh wait, I heard casteism was worse than racism somewhere (or rather everywhere). In racism, u can come out by developing urself (by upping ur class). Pls shut up ur mouth guys.. <a href="http://atrocitynews.com/2008/01/06/heinous-age-old-caste-virus-in-indian-cricket/" rel="nofollow">http://atrocitynews.com/2008/01/06/heinous-age-ol...</a>
13 May 2013, 08.36 PM
KKY
Kindly take care any derogatory comments are non bailable cognizable offence.Under SC/ST atrocities act.
13 May 2013, 10.41 PM
Swetha
Dear authors of InsideIIM please do a check on the maximum no. of seats and the number of seats actually filled in all new and old IIMs, you will get your answer. Seats are hardly ever 100% full, believe me, the Directors and Professors would rather give up filling a few seats rather than taking in incompetent students.
13 May 2013, 10.48 PM
EternalFighter
With all due respect to all comments here and trying hard to make this a not a reservation based topic. I would like to make a few points. 1. CAT percentile is not a measure of one's standard. By saying, the lower percentile people are not good , we are missing some really good guys who had an off day. Or some real good talents who just did not get few trigonometry problems correct. 2. By lowering, the percentile, they are not compromising the quality. They are just trying to identify better all round profiles rather than one who is strong with maths. 3. The fundamental problem is with CAT which cannot identify a well groomed person. If the CAT can do that job, the standard can be maintained as quoted by keeping high CAT percentile alone. 4. The reduction of CAT minimum cut off should be treated as identifying a whole new profile rather than reduction in standard. 5. All individual are unique and gifted. The low CAT score definitely will not determine their ability as a manager or a leader. So never mock at someone who has a less cat score. 6. I understand that there will be a lot of example against it based on placement records and so on. I request please do not judge a book on its first page.
13 May 2013, 11.10 PM
+Read Replies (1)
vinb
Eternal fighter has posted 6 points...when all of them are stating only 1 thing...read d frst point and all other i feel are redundant...dude saying just 1 single thing in 6 points doesnot make sense at all.
14 May 2013, 12.08 AM |
Insideiim Admin
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@Sera's comment deleted as it is irrelevant and derogatory at the same time
13 May 2013, 11.57 PM
+Read Replies (1)
Sera
Your article is itself derogatory showing your upper caste chauvinistic mindset, sorry to say but it is.
14 May 2013, 12.47 AM |
Insideiim Admin
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Request everyone to exercise caution when making comments. Do not get personal and please do not make this as an 'us vs them' fight. Your IP addresses are tracked.
14 May 2013, 12.17 AM
RANDOMISATION
another point i would like to make is dat it is not brand IIM... each IIM has its own tag... hence the tag is something like ABC>L>>IK>new IIMs... PS: i am extremely sry, i have zero respect for I and K... no offence meant... purely personal opinion...
14 May 2013, 07.29 AM
Manish
Most of My OBC friends who got into ABCLKI had good work-ex and decent past academic record. There were few who had not so good percentile and to make matter worse , even bad acads. Today , Friends in former category passed out with a decent jobs while the latter are still languishing confused about if at all the IIM Brand helped them in anyway. So, Yes i believe that lowering down cutoff to accommodate candidates belonging to lower range ( Percentile) may not be helping their individual career but still the companies offering good profiles are getting the talent they are looking for and hence the Brand IIM may have takers in corporate world. I for one got 98 + thrice(general) but could only manage calls from new IIMs and that too this year. But hardly matters now .
14 May 2013, 08.15 AM
MVB
What I would like to pose as a question here is the following: Why and how does it make sense to have reservation in a post graduate course and that too in the best of the best? I ask this because of 2 reasons: 1.) We already have reservations in the UG courses and the so called deprived castes are already given a chance to get an out of turn quality education and thus get quality paying jobs which enable them to be at par with everyone in terms of sufficient resources to study. 2.) There a lot of other government owned colleges which provide quality B school education but the IIM's are the best of the best and they can be used to promote opportunities for deprived communities whilst not diluting the brand IIM. I would like to add a disclaimer since I do not want to hurt sentiments of the privelaged reservation exploiters as well as the deserving candidates who have faced hardship in life and are not satisfied with the opportunity they got in the UG course reservations (Read IITs NITs etc).
14 May 2013, 12.26 PM
@thetimmal
There are two parts of my view on this piece. 1. Correcting cut-offs in a way to not compromise quality and at the same time ensure affirmative action is an implementation issue. There is no straight solution for this. If one says that, lets say 70 percentile, is cut-off, then argument and cases on how difficulty level paper of year1 and year2, session 1 and session 2 are different. So in all, implementation is not easy. 2. There is no single brand IIM for graduates from this college. Before CAT people view it as IIMs, but after that there is visible difference. So, in future you can expect different campuses holding weight and not a single name 'IIM". Same thing holds true for IITs as well. - Take a step back and look at broader perspective. This kind of 'name for campus' and not a single tag happens globally. As an example, consider "University of California" tag and its various campuses - UC Berkeley, UCLA, UC San Diego are famous and respected, sometimes UC Santa Barbera too. But who respects UC Santa Cruz or UC Riverside, Merced etc.... for more read here: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_California#Campuses_and_rankings" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Califo...</a> (good analogy with A/B/C, somewhere L, I, K .... then S, R1,r2,r3, u, v, w,x,y,z and what not ....)
14 May 2013, 03.35 PM
Praveer
We need a greater number of MBAs, Engineers, etc. of the highest quality. How do we do that? Build more world-class institutes. How do you make bricks and mortar into world class institutes? Attract students, faculty, etc. of the highest calibre. How? 1. Use already established brand names. 2. Build new brands. This is about using choice 1 (which looks much easier) over choice 2. and also, the disadvantages of using choice 1 when your supply pool is not enough to satisfy the demand. An option worth exploring here would be to introduce new brands and 'elevating' them to known brand names when they meet the requirements! Well, that is (very briefly) my understanding.
14 May 2013, 05.25 PM
Genius
It is okay to relax cut-offs for a few percentage points reservation. No need to do it in general seats. But how about taking people in with lower scores but giving them an extra year to improve themselves instead of handing over the degree in 2 years ?!!! That solves the quality output situation. Quality input can't be touched. We all know that !!
14 May 2013, 08.13 PM
IIMer
Wish you people had written these articles two years back.. Yeah , I am an ST student , Got admitted to one of the top 4 iims in the country .. though i know i dont deserve even to be in the top 30 institutes of the country... happy ending????? Nope. I am yet not placed.....100 or so batchmates (all undeserving ones) in my college getting placed for 6-7 lacs job... I coudn't even manged that.., how would I even gonna repay the humongous Loan that I took ..My parents are so dissapointed.... I have never been so disappointed and unhappy in my life.....
14 May 2013, 11.34 PM
IIM Alum
Well, I feel that CAT is designed in such a manner that it suits engineers more than students from other backgrounds (I'm an engineer myself). This at the very least can discourage students from other educational backgrounds from even attempting CAT who I believe are no less qualified/ capable in management aptitude. So, either include more sections in CAT comprising subjects which people from arts/ commerce/ other backgrounds are comfortable with (as in IAS) or reduce the cutoffs. Since I do not see the former happening and CAT applications seeing a gradual y-o-y drop, having low cutoffs is in fact a viable solution.
15 May 2013, 11.38 AM
ForChange
Insideiim your post although directly doesn't point out the reason for lower minimum cut-offs but it is clear and hence u have such replies. Whether you deny the fact that u did not mean the same but please remember you only have the right to write, not to make others interpret. Moreover, your last note in bracket shows ur mindset while writing the article. Well, now talking abt the reservations and all the other stuff and quotes from 8th STD CBSE book.. Reservation for deserving is not a bad thing. Oppression may have lead to the current position of some privileged and nobody from a general category would snatch the food from the mouth of deserving. But why always the situation is seen from just one side. That SC ST people were oppressed and now reservation can heal the injustice done. Actually reservation is not done for the seats. It is done to make their living sound, so that they can earn well and live luxurious life. Now, see the other side. Not all general category people are Ambani's. If you have been aware of the budget session this year there were only 8% of people who will have to pay the 10% extra surcharge levied on rich people. What about rest? Rest 90% general category people have the only option to make their good living by good higher studies, from good colleges like IIMs. And there too, despite of good score in CAT like xamz they are less preferred because of almost 50% reservation who have lesser minimum cut-offs. Is that any justice? You want to give justice to one side of people by doing injustice to other side. What kind of justice is that? It is in my view just revenge. general category people give the examz for 4-5 times on average hoping that now they can earn a seat. Can you imagine the mental trauma they go through? Because in today's scenario they are just same as you SC ST people. General Category is no different from you people. But you people have got the reservation and GC people don't. And it hurts them more when people from SC ST ctegry alrdy have good jobs due to reservation and they need more. They don't think that general categry people might need something. They simply just have sole thought that they are the one with nothing and they have the right to snatch everything from GC people because GC people have oppressed them. Please I request you people to change the thought. IIMs cannot do anything by just increasing the minimum cutoffs. They will increase it by more or less 5%ile and that won't affect anything. They have to take reserved people and they will continue. After all that is the law. The only remedy to this thing is that we have to change our thoughts. Both the side of people have to think about others. Government take decision owing to their vote-banks. They think about themselves. So we people need to think about ourselves(I mean about each other by this word).
15 May 2013, 12.14 PM
null null
Nice article.....but its overshadowed by something...what’s that?? ISSUES! Lots and lots of ISSUES...i guess the main reason of education is not just to become money-churning machines, but a person with a proper mental growth..and mental growth is not only restricted academics. You went to one of the premier colleges and you learn this? This is how your thought process works? Is this what you infer? Your article makes me realize that you are basically a preacher of something that draws the most comments. I guess a proper schooling might have changed it. Any way it’s too late. You need to really write something useful!!!!! Some of the articles in insideiim.com have so much of negativity in them. It’s almost bad. I know the freedom of speech entitles you, but education is what supposed to bind you too. And if proper communications skills were to just make you feel special, then please the people at call centers are better than you. Make insideiim.com reflect your constructive ideas to make a better world, not a place where you can just write such articles and indirectly spread hatred. You have no idea how articles play with the mind. All you will end up doing is passing your hatred to the next generation and so on. It never stops. And getting into IIM with 45 percentiles..are you really in IIM? I know being good is bad, but do try it once in a while. You were told you are special when you were a kid, so is everyone, irrespective of what they are. Peace to everyone.
8 Jun 2013, 10.05 PM