The Peculiar Problem of Business School Rankings in India

Team InsideIIM

Thanks for pointing that out. Rectified.

4 Jun 2012, 11.52 PM |

Karan

Would like to know how many people have chosen MDI over IIM I and IIM K in the last 5 years. CNBC makes no sense.

5 Jun 2012, 10.12 AM |

Vinay

MDI over IIM K, maybe not.. but IIM I is not a safe bet anymore.. their batch size is just one of the pointers

5 Jun 2012, 05.50 PM |

Shirsendoo

Get me even 1 guy/gal who will choose MDI over IIM I. If there exists some such person it would be a delhi sissy not wanting to go away from home.

5 Jun 2012, 10.47 PM |

ankit

Hey vinay...regarding IIM I is not a safe bet considering the batch size...this point is made considering placements will take a hit because of size or do you have any other point in mind mentioning same ?

5 Jun 2012, 11.04 PM |

IIM I student

There goes another IIM K guy trying to put IIM Indore down. There has been a sustained campaign in the media against IIM Indore run by the media committee of IIM Kozhikode. Just so that a few facts are clear, 1)Check the rankings of all reputed media for the last 10 years - IIM Indore has always been ranked higher than IIM K. 2) IIM I alums have done better than IIM K alums - check the alum report on this very website - Consulting and Marketing ( IIM I eats up IIM K). Even in Finance most of IIM K alums are in Technology. 3) Go have a look at the infrastructure of IIM Indore. It is better than IIM K,FMS,SPJIMR,XLRI and I will even add IIM Lucknow (many may not agree) 4) Student exchange at IIM K is no match for IIM I's tie-ups (90 students are going on exchange!) 5) We don't admit people at 90%ile just because they are of a particular gender. We have a quality filter. 6) The only reason we get bad press is because Ravi C hates pandering to media demands whereas other directors love talking to them. Some use women to gain limelight. 7) BCG added IIM I along with XLRI as their new campus for recruitment and they have recruited 2 years running (They have not recruited from FMS or IIM K). Bank of America Merrill Lynch only recruited from 4 institutes this year for summers ( IIM ABC and Indore) 8) No IIM has had the guts to start a full-time PGP programme in UAE. And the under-grad IPM programme is a first. I for 'Innovation'. 9) All the criticism this year is only because of the increased batch size. Would love to see if any of IIM K,FMS,XLRI have the guts to place over 400 people. People forget IIM K was unable to place 3 candidtes from their batch of..... wait for it........ 317! And dont get me started on forced sign outs in IIM Lucknow. TOI/HT Comments sections will give full story. Just wait for summers this year. Despite a tough year we are bound to do well. By the way we did well last year too. Stupid placomm didnt share data here. I think I vented enough. I should stop before I hurt people further. But Truth shall prevail.

5 Jun 2012, 11.29 AM |

Wimwian

Relax, you conspiracy theorist you! Lol :-P Why do you even bother typing such a Wall of Text about Indore haha. Anyway, Indore rocks, you rock. Hope you get into BCG if you like consulting. Cheers!

5 Jun 2012, 12.20 PM |

nik

I think this is a difference of maturity between IIM A & IIM I...:):)

5 Jun 2012, 12.49 PM |

IIM I student

No conspiracy theory. Its actually happening on different forums. We have been ignoring it for far too long. Just because we are busy doing our own thing doesn't mean people mislead based on data that suits them.

5 Jun 2012, 12.55 PM |

IIM I student

Ofcourse. We were just waiting for the wise guy from IIM Lucknow for his judgement on maturity levels of institutions. How sagacious and mature!

5 Jun 2012, 12.57 PM |

Neutral_Junta

Kudos man. As a neutral guy I think you have made your points clear. I have seen a lot of people from non ABC trying to portray a bad image for I when there is no need. When someone is jealous of you it shows that you are popular :) Regarding the IIMK thing...I think IIMK is trying to admit more female students to enhance its diversity rather to trying to improve other fronts such as academic excellence, infra etc. Nothing wrong in that.But came to know from a few juniors who had both I and K calls how seniors from K have been atrociously biased in their opinion about I.

5 Jun 2012, 04.15 PM |

Charanyan

Correction..TAS hired larger no. of students in K as compared IIM Indore. Do you mean to say a couple of extra companies coming over dictates the quality of students? I am sure you are a fresher :D And I am not afraid to put my name in here unlike some others. Sorry to get into this petty whining post but it was just asking for it. @Inside IIM Editors - I won't be doing something like this again Charanyan Iyengar Class of 2011, IIM Kozhikode

7 Jun 2012, 11.27 PM |

Pradipta

Just to add to Charanyan..... @ IIM I Student : Dude Let’s talk numbers.....TAS hired 8 for summers(highest across any IIMs and other B-schools) and 6 in finals(again highest across any b-schools) ...Well afaik, the figure for IIM-I is 1 & 1 for summers & finals....Now let’s talk even deep...out of X PPOs TAS has already offered this year, the highest is from K...And sorry dude IIM-I does not figure in that list of PPO getters..Now lets talk bout FMCG...if u r aware, HUL offered the highest no. of PPOs(4) to K across all IIMs last yr.....Afaik, the number in S&M HUL for IIM-I is "0" (u wer talking bout some alumni report in fmcg cos...which in no case can be totally trustworthy)....Regarding the guts u mentioned about IIM-I opening its campus in UAE, pls go n read the reports about the fucntioning of the institute out there.. A lot has been written and said about the financial mismanagement and unethical practices adopted in its admission policies (If you are aware of it at all) Just one piece of advice for you (IIM I student)- talk with a sense of maturity rather den venting out our frustation in a public forum....The fact that we dint respond earlier does not mean ki we cant respond....No non-sensical comments about any institute would ever be tolerated...Grow up and talk with utter respect for any institute.

7 Jun 2012, 11.59 PM |

Team InsideIIM

Ok. Guys we've had enough of IIM I vs IIM K for this year. Let's work in collaboration to create something unique. We believe there is enough room for both the institutes to succeed and do well. (We won't be allowing any more mud slinging/ rude retorts on this forum) On a serious note how about an annual sports competition or any other management competition between the institutes rather than a pointless debate like this one. It may help the institutes appreciate each other and also create a deeper identity. (Physical distance could be the only real issue) Everyone likes an healthy rivalry.

8 Jun 2012, 12.50 AM |

Pradipta

Annual Sports Competition like Sangram (IIMK vs IIMB) can be tried out with IIM-I too...But as rightly pointed out, physical distance could be an issue...Regarding management competitions, I believe there has been enough participation of IIMK junta in Ahvan and IIM-I junta in Backwaters...moreover students keep participating in various management events floated in various mgmnt portals all throughout the year... @Team InsideIIM - Working in collaboration for the betterment of both the institutes is something we all should look forward to...

11 Jun 2012, 04.34 AM |

Ankit Doshi

There is a huge discrepancy between Financial Times, The Economist and the Bloomberg Newsweek rankings. Just because the PGDM programme in the IIMs is not considered an MBA does not mean they are any less. IIM typically admits students who have less than 2 years of work experience and MBA programmes around the world do not. Hence, the difference in classification and comparison. IIM graduates have done outstandingly well in the world and it is only a matter of time before all 6 IIMs will figure in these so called 'World' rankings. Ultimately, FT is also a media house and just because it is from London does not make its rankings the best in the world. They have never really focussed on India. If you are in India, you are bound to look at India rankings and the above rankings serve that purpose. It's a different matter the methodology may not be fully evolved. By the way, there are very few candidates in India who would choose NUS Singapore,ISB Hyderabad or even Melbourne Business School over IIM ABC despite all the FT rankings. Also, it is tougher to get into any of the 6 IIMs/XLRI/FMS than any of the top schools in Asia if you are from the general category.

6 Jun 2012, 12.33 AM |

realist

Point 1 : Your comparison of IIMs and foreign top B-schools is very naive. The foreign schools have people with tonnes of experience. They have people from across the globe. People with experience of over 10 years are a common sight unlike IIMs. They do not have to force diversity. It just happens to them. They do not have to reject a candidate based on the gender, caste, education or whether he did not perform well in kinder-garden. Foreign B-schools evaluate each and every application. Point 2 : Why is it tough to get into IIMs? So your point is just because an institute has some 200000 applications it has quality. do you think if HBS or NUS comes to india people will leave that and take others? Why are you in such a self-congratulatory and narcissistic mode? IIM A/B/C are best because the brightest talent in this country have no option left if they do not have the finance to do mba abroad. Who would leave an admit from US/Canada/Europe/Aus/singapore bschool for IIM I/K/XL/FMS ?

8 Jun 2012, 05.29 PM |

Aditya Bhoi

Nothing much, wish to join rat race.

i wil probably leave it, H1B lottery sucks

10 Aug 2017, 03.33 PM |

Ankit Doshi

It is difficult to argue with you since you have made up your mind about the inferiority of the PGP programmes and its 'cokcy' products. Also, you have assumed the infallibility of rankings published by a media house in US/Europe. All I can say is that as the action shifts to Asia-Pacific your perceptions will get a major hit.

6 Jun 2012, 01.24 AM |

Ankit Doshi

Also, by the way just so that you know, I did a 4-month Student exchange programme at University of St.Gallen, Switzerland. Hence, my perspective is pretty much in place.

6 Jun 2012, 01.27 AM |

Get real!

MBA originated in the west not in joka or vastrapur. FT has been in existence since my grandad was in pampers. so, yes, i trust it more than a website that calls itself pagalguy and Economic Times, the so called leading business paper that ranks IMT at 7 as IMT advertises pretty heavily with them. Its not an oriental&#039;s hero worship of the occidental. But a modern Indian&#039;s pragmatic view of reality. P.S - <a href="http://www.elook.org/dictionary/occidental.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.elook.org/dictionary/occidental.html</a> For those of you who didn&#039;t take the GMAT.

6 Jun 2012, 01.49 AM |

Get real!

MBA originated in the west not in joka or vastrapur. FT has been in existence since my grandad was in pampers. so, yes, i trust it more than a website that calls itself pagalguy and Economic Times, the so called leading business paper that ranks IMT at 7 as IMT advertises pretty heavily with them. Its not an oriental&#039;s hero worship of the occidental. But a modern Indian&#039;s pragmatic view of reality.

6 Jun 2012, 01.52 AM |

Wimwian

Well Sir Modern Indian, if you have an admit from both University of St.Gallen and IIM Ahmedabad, which one would you choose? Just out of curiosity, where did you do your MBA (?) from?

6 Jun 2012, 10.24 AM |

Rito

and yet these "cocky boys" get hired by firms located in places where "MBA originated" or from where FT operates "since ages". Ah,the irony. Maybe they recruit these "know-it-all" hollow indian MBAs to do their bit in CSR (helping the third-world citizens, etc)

6 Jun 2012, 10.19 AM |

Wimwian

well spoken, my good sir, well spoken indeed :D

6 Jun 2012, 12.09 PM |

Troll

eh what, how, where? :-O I don&#039;t think any PGP&#039;s work as burger flippers anywhere...

6 Jun 2012, 12.08 PM |

totally real

aah...it seems to me that you were a pseudo &#039;cocky&#039; in your time and since it was pseudo, you failed to make it to most of the top schools but eventually got through some executive course. May even be ISB, given your condescending attitude but dont vent out your frustration about it on others here. Go get a life and stop commenting about who should or should not get into a MBA program just coz diont tell me you didnt try getting to a top school fresh out of college.

6 Jun 2012, 12.41 PM |

Get real!

Executive courses kya hota hai? You mean for people with work ex right? But that&#039;s the definition of an MBA. So stop trying to play down One Year MBA&#039;s with executive tag which is an open attempt by PGP, helped by IIM&#039;s nincompoopish policy of adding executive word to the One Year MBA. Its the only MBA proper, my Masters in management mates. An executive MBA is a part time MBA for working managers who are employed while they study. A one Year MBA is the European format of MBA. All MBA, whether 2 years or one year are meant for &#039;executives&#039;. Peace be on you. Really. lets chill. My idea wasnt to hurt, just reliving possibly my own equally &#039;cokcy&#039; student days - maybe even now :-) Its a brotherly fight. All IIM guys fight as one - one or two year.

6 Jun 2012, 02.51 PM |

troll

@totally real: Mate, I think you hit a raw nerve of Get Real with your comment. Given the rant that followed, I am guessing you hit the nail on the head. Kudos to you sir for you insight :-D

6 Jun 2012, 03.02 PM |

Get real!

Hi just for clarity sake. No, i never aspired to an MBA out of college. I never sat for CAT. I was clear on my goal and wanted to get my hands dirty on what interested me asap. i did what I loved for a good number of years. When i reached a place where my work was becoming more and more strategic, rather than the actual fun stuff, i decided its a good idea to now strap an MBA to equip me and also to propel me faster in the next trajectory i was entering, which was senior management for me. So i sat for GMAT with a view to try for the One Year MBA&#039;s in France and London - Insead, IMD, HEC, AIM, etc. I could neither afford two years nor felt the need for that long an MBA, given my past experience. Then recession struck, and luckily guided me to the IIMs. INSEAD where i was accepted was going to cost me 50 lakhs including living expenses. I got accepted at IIM B. So that&#039;s my honest story. Hope this is constructive unlike my last few posts :-) Its a common misconception, (or maybe escape) that the One Year guys are failed CAT guys. Just simply not true. Most of us did not see it as a goal. Also there are attempts to deride the GMAT which is a universally accepted exam and glorify CAT through absurd figures such as 52:1 acceptence ratio. If we start imagining that everyone who gave the GMAT, gave it so he could apply to IIM One Year MBA -we would arrive at an illogical 2L :300 ratio. But its a absurd number, and unfortunately IIM PGP students have been tom tomming such artificial figures to bolster their programme, when there is enough good in it in actuality. Whats needed is mutual acceptance and respect and an ability to appreciate one another. We are two different product lines from one company serving different segments. Both can sell, and sell well.

6 Jun 2012, 04.21 PM |

Get real!

yes there is - the new testament.

6 Jun 2012, 02.52 PM |

Abhishek Sivaraman

Oh..thanks..thats probably because u werent there at that time proclaiming urself to be the saviour.Jesus wud have had a tuf time.

6 Jun 2012, 03.23 PM |

Get real!

actually Jesus did and eventually left for earth. But he did a PGP, so they crucified him :-) chill kar na yaar. i dropped sword long back.

6 Jun 2012, 03.46 PM |

Abhishek Sivaraman

haha..cudnt resist posting it..i never took the sword..I was jus asking why this kolaveri di ??

6 Jun 2012, 03.47 PM |

Nilesh

lol, these comments are even funnier than the ones on rediff

8 Jun 2012, 02.52 PM |

Abhishek Sivaraman

Thanks..Wish u the same dude.. :)

6 Jun 2012, 04.07 PM |

rahul

dats the funniest excuse i hav ever heard ! den why is IIM A at no.1 ? indian domestic companies prefer IIM A ,and den dey go to SIBM pune , nt IIM C! why ? ET rankings is totally RANDOM !

8 Jun 2012, 06.27 PM |

troll

haha what a self-righteous (&quot;One has to understand what rankings stand for, before commenting anything&quot;) dodo (random argument)! :-P

9 Jun 2012, 01.21 PM |

Ambarish

I am of the opinion that none of the parameters you&#039;ve mentioned should be used while ranking B-Schools. It&#039;s high time that management education in India undergoes a revamp. Today, a vast majority of Indian B-Schools are churning out unemployable products. To be very honest, many of them, including the ones from top and old IIMs, lack good communication skills - a hygiene factor to succeed as a manager. B-Schools need to focus on such issues and need to find a solution to them. Placements, role profile etc. are driven are alumni and hence serves no purpose in deciding the quality of the batch and/or education imparted to students. An IIM LIK will always be ranked lower than IIM ABC if rankings are based on placements, even if the quality of education at IIM LIK might be better than that at IIM ABC. Similarly FMS/JBIMS/XLRI will always boast of better placements than IIM IK because of their smaller batch sizes. That does not go on to prove that these B-Schools are necessarily better than IIM I/K.

10 Jun 2012, 02.30 PM |

rahul

der is no IIM bangalore in dat list !

9 Jun 2012, 11.49 PM |

Ambarish

XLRI is a better school than IIM Calcutta as per the author.

10 Jun 2012, 09.49 AM |

Ambarish

Rankings by Eduniversal : <a href="http://www.eduniversal-ranking.com/business-school-university-ranking-in-india.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.eduniversal-ranking.com/business-schoo...</a> I liked the way B-Schools have been ranked here... But if you see, beyond the first few schools, the rankings go haywire, if you compare these rankings with the other ones put up here.... In my opinion, a similar ranking by deans of say top 50 B-Schools in India will be a better idea.

10 Jun 2012, 10.08 AM |

Double whammy

You need a seperate ranking possibly for the One Year MBA&#039;s - ISB doesnt compete with 2 year programme. Also, IIM A, B, C, Indore One Year MBA all post higher average CTC than ISB. IIM A is 26 lakhs, IIM C, B and I are averaging 18 Lakhs.

7 Sep 2012, 03.05 AM |

COMMON SENSE

this is the worst case scenario, top 4 are perfect though , u just dnt rank indore nd kozhikode abv the likes of XL,FMS,JBIMS wch hav an alumni network jst a notch below dt of IIM A,B,C...just because dey hav an IIM brand against dem !! . there is no generalised IIM brand . IIMA is a different brand, IIM B is a different 1 and IIM I is a different brand ! p.s : i know a girl who has left IIM indore dis year nd has gone fr IIM trichy :P

25 Jun 2012, 12.13 AM |

Raghav

Your P.S. means nothing buddy... As per a current FMS student, someone left IIM-A for FMS.. It really means nothing.. And it most certainly doesn&#039;t mean FMS is better than IIM-A. Likewise IIMI is a better brand than IIMT. IIMI and IIMK are just a better than JBIMS though they lag behind XLRI and FMS. Alumni network is a very important parameter, however it is the not the only one. JBIMS fails on several counts.

25 Jun 2012, 12.26 AM |

COMMON SENSE

Study the placement reports for last 10 years and you yourself will come to know wether JBIMS is better than IIM I,K or not , the recruiters are the best people to decide who is better , after all they are paying for it ! no ? even HT ranked JB at no. 6 in rankings based on placements (2011). in overall rankings JB alwayz suffers coz of its infra ,but dat is understandable considering its location( currently quoted at rs. 90,000 per sq. feet).

25 Jun 2012, 12.35 PM |

Raghav

JBIMS struggles to place a batch of 120 students. Are you aware of that? There is no major difference in terms of companies that visit IIMI/K and JBIMS. JBIMS was a very strong brand a decade or two ago..However, the current state of affairs is not too encouraging.

25 Jun 2012, 02.07 PM |

COMMON SENSE

I am more aware abt the placement scenario of JBIMS den you ! this years average package was 14.9 lpa , last year it was 15.73 and i am sure it will cross 15 once again next year . with an alumni network like that of JBIMS (read similar to FMS,XL, IIM L, u can refer to wikipedia fr dat) ,placements are never going to be an issue at JBIMS ,it can easily leverage on its alumni network (evry1 knows placements are alumni driven). also the institutes are comparing with dat of JB , hav recently faced tough times placing there students . IIM I for finals , and IIM K fr summers . kindly do not malign the reputation of a prestigious B school having such great legacy just beacuse its difficult for most of people outside a particular region to get admission there beacuse of certain admission policy. (most criticisms against JB are just because people find it very difficult to get admn there nd hence the case of sour grapes) .

25 Jun 2012, 03.21 PM |

Raghav

Can&#039;t help but laugh buddy... 14.9, 15.73,.... Just talk to JBIMS students and you will get the reality.... Buddy the point is JBIMS struggles to place a meagre batch size of 120 students.. They better not increase the batch size otherwise puri tarah se phat jaayegi..

25 Jun 2012, 06.07 PM |

COMMON SENSE

look at your tone buddy ! there is absolutely no logic and only frustration ! i can understand ur state nd my sympathies with you ! even i didnt get IIM A , bt i dnt go on a public forum to target that particular college . and regarding the students ..... the &quot;top 120&quot; from a pool of 1 lakh candidates surely can&#039;t be bad ! no ? and yes my brother is in this college and i need not know from u about the placements , i am very well aware about it .

25 Jun 2012, 08.15 PM |

Raghav

I sincerely hope your brother makes it to the list of those &#039;few&#039; students who get good jobs.. My best wishes! Top 120?? Do you know the composition of reserved categories? JBIMS is ahead of IIMs in terms of reservations... Every possible quota that one can think of is there at JBIMS.. Even the open category students (most) of JBIMS are ABCLIK XL FMS SPJIMR rejects.....

25 Jun 2012, 08.29 PM |

COMMON SENSE

LOL ! anyone who reads ur comments can clearly figure out that you have a clear propaganda against this college . regarding reservation . it has the slightest difference betweent reserved and open categories hence manages with a good average package every year . for example people with 85 % in OBC category hav converted IIM I,K . whereas JB last year closed for 99.09% for OBC . u get the difference ? and yes go through the summere placement report on this very site , u will get to know the brand power of JB . Just to irritate and make u feel a bit more jealous i wud like to add that 90% of batch at JB has above 12 lacs of package and lowest package dis year is 10 lacs .( and i am sure u will retaliate as u hav a clear propaganda) . nd btw i personally knw ppl who hav left IIM I,K , SPJIMR fr JB.

25 Jun 2012, 08.55 PM |

Raghav

Don&#039;t even compare the CAT percentiles with those of CET... Just look at the candidate profile of CAT takers and that of CET takers.. Most of the CET toppers have average scores in the CAT.. Majority of them are engineers from Mumbai based institutes... There are no IITans, no SRCC/LSR/Stephens people, no BITSians, no NITans, no CAs at JBIMS.. And please do not go by placement figures thrown by the placement committee at JBIMS.. I am sure your bro must have said the same thing to you..

26 Jun 2012, 10.44 AM |

karan.punj

No worries, Raghav Bro, This common sense dude has himself opted for JBIMS this time. He is an OBC. So anyway just like other reserved candidates at any other place, he is gonna suffer competing with general category ppl. And yes lesser said about JBIMS Placements its better. He is up for rude surprises. :P I don&#039;t understand why he is calling other&#039;s rankings as absurd. :O when he himself has posted shit ranking just one post above :haha

27 Jun 2012, 09.53 AM |

COMMON SENSE

i dont know wat u r talking abt , bt ur statement dat reserved category candidates suffer at any place is highly demeaning and castist , in my engineering college rank 1,3 and 4 were OBC and all got the best placements (8 lacs +) , and yes i need not worry abt placements i hav gt admission in one of the best colleges in india and i beleive in my abilities . u worry about yourselves .

27 Jun 2012, 10.58 AM |

Raghav

Karan, lets keep the discussion at general level, not at personal level..

27 Jun 2012, 11.21 AM |

COMMON SENSE

rankings are alwayz a game of personal priorities . all the colleges in top 10 are definations of awesomeness. bt if u leave aside IIM ABC , people mainly decide among the rest based on personal priorities. I left IIM kozhikode fr JB . And i will alwayz b happy about my decision regardless of my placements . Being associated with a college that has produced such industry stalwarts itself is more than enough for me . I rest my case here ... i dnt like to take potshots at other colleges unlike few ppl .

27 Jun 2012, 06.48 PM |

Neutral_Junta

That will be very similar to Pagalguy rankings.

16 Jul 2012, 05.37 PM |

@InsideIIM

We will only come out with our own rankings if we feel we can add value to our readers and users. As of now, we haven&#039;t really felt the need since we only cover the top schools in India anyway.

16 Jul 2012, 07.02 PM |

Raghav

&quot;Asia-Pacific&#039;s most credible management education portal&quot;.. Why &#039;Asia Pacific&#039; when the spectrum of your work is anyway limited to a few and select B-Schools in India? Any thoughts???

17 Jul 2012, 11.11 AM |

@InsideIIM

That will be clear to you in the next few months. Please bear with us for some time.

17 Jul 2012, 02.15 PM |